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Marko Amnell

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Since: Dec 19, 2007
Posts: 37



(Msg. 106) Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:41 am
Post subject: Re: More On This Farcical Election [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>arts>books, others (more info?)

Les Cargill wrote:

> Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> > "Les Cargill" wrote in message
> >
> > > 1) Who cares? 2) I don't really know. Probably not - I suspect
> > > the British were at that point in time.
> >
> > 1. Those USAns abroad who pretend to be Canadians.
>
> Is that even true?

STEVE GIEGERICH
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

As anti-war sentiment rises in other countries, U.S. colleges
are warning their students studying abroad to avoid demonstrations,
street corner debates on U.S. foreign policy and clothes
that identify them as Americans.

But just to be on the safe side, some students are passing
themselves off as Canadian. ...

"We told them, if you're travelling or if you're out somewhere
for the weekend, tell someone you're Canadian," said
Stephen Burmeister-May, the director of international education.

http://www.thetorontostar.ca/NASApp/...l=968705899037

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Marko Amnell

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Since: Dec 19, 2007
Posts: 37



(Msg. 107) Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:51 am
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Archived from groups: alt>angst, others (more info?)

The link I gave below doesn't seem to work. But this one does,
if you want to read the whole story:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/03/27/students.abroad.ap/index.html



Marko Amnell wrote:

> Les Cargill wrote:
>
> > Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> > > "Les Cargill" wrote in message
> > >
> > > > 1) Who cares? 2) I don't really know. Probably not - I suspect
> > > > the British were at that point in time.
> > >
> > > 1. Those USAns abroad who pretend to be Canadians.
> >
> > Is that even true?
>
> STEVE GIEGERICH
> THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
>
> As anti-war sentiment rises in other countries, U.S. colleges
> are warning their students studying abroad to avoid demonstrations,
> street corner debates on U.S. foreign policy and clothes
> that identify them as Americans.
>
> But just to be on the safe side, some students are passing
> themselves off as Canadian. ...
>
> "We told them, if you're travelling or if you're out somewhere
> for the weekend, tell someone you're Canadian," said
> Stephen Burmeister-May, the director of international education.
>
> http://www.thetorontostar.ca/NASApp/...l=968705899037

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Marko Amnell

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Since: Dec 19, 2007
Posts: 37



(Msg. 108) Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:10 am
Post subject: Re: More On This Farcical Election [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>arts>books, others (more info?)

The link I gave below doesn't seem to work. But this one does,
if you want to read the whole story:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/03/27/students.abroad.ap/index.html



Marko Amnell wrote:

> Les Cargill wrote:
>
> > Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> > > "Les Cargill" wrote in message
> > >
> > > > 1) Who cares? 2) I don't really know. Probably not - I suspect
> > > > the British were at that point in time.
> > >
> > > 1. Those USAns abroad who pretend to be Canadians.
> >
> > Is that even true?
>
> STEVE GIEGERICH
> THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
>
> As anti-war sentiment rises in other countries, U.S. colleges
> are warning their students studying abroad to avoid demonstrations,
> street corner debates on U.S. foreign policy and clothes
> that identify them as Americans.
>
> But just to be on the safe side, some students are passing
> themselves off as Canadian. ...
>
> "We told them, if you're travelling or if you're out somewhere
> for the weekend, tell someone you're Canadian," said
> Stephen Burmeister-May, the director of international education.
>
> http://www.thetorontostar.ca/NASApp/...l=968705899037
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hhc314

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Since: Oct 28, 2008
Posts: 1



(Msg. 109) Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:43 pm
Post subject: Re: More On This Farcical Election [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>arts>books, others (more info?)

On Oct 25, 6:39 pm, Fred Kasner wrote:
> wrote:
> > H2O can have one or two "free" electrons in it's orbits.
> > When you relieve the bond without heat (converting electrons) in a
> > "cold process" you have everything left over in usable unstable form.
> > One can collect these freed electrons for any electrical purpose until
> > the gases are recombined.
>
> This is without doubt the most uninformed comment about the nature of
> the chemical bond that I have ever read.
> If an electron is in an "orbit" (no such thing exists for atoms) what
> you really were trying to say was that an electron is described by an
> orbital. But it is NOT FREE. If an electron has an orbital description
> it is not free. A free electron is not bound and so no orbital describes
> it. What in the world is a "relieve(d) ... bond"? No such description is
> appropriate in the fielf of quantum mechanics. And what does the
> expression mean "usable unstable form"?
> The above statement is hopeless gibberish. Even a first year chemistry
> student knows more about the nature of the chemical bond than the
> nonsense shown above provides. And you claim to be a in the top 1% of what?
>
> This one is truly a classic and I am going to save it and shove it in
> your face repeatedly every time you essay to claim to know something
> about science even in the most elementary form.
>
> FK

That said, and I totally agree, but lets return to the subject of the
original thread.

I may not, for the first time, vote this year, and here is why.

John McCane is too old to hold office being my age. It actually
shows.

Obama is an artificial creation, a man half white and half black,
Omama is simply a puppet for politicians in Chicago who hold his
strings, someone lacking any real qualifications to hold the highest
office in the land. Obama has never held a real job in his life,
living on the dole.

How this situation came about is a result of the terrible decline and
putrification of our national political parties. Everyone realizes
this, but nobody does anything about it. Ask yourself, are these two
candidates the best and the brightest Americans that deserve be
elected to hold the highest and most powerful position in the United
States. I don't think so, so how did we get ourselves in this
ridiculous situation?

Obviously, because everyone was asleep. amd allowed this to take place
as a result.

So where should we go from here?

What would happen were every voter to opt for a write in candiate, or
simply "None of the above". What would actually happen if the vast
majority of write in votes went for Joe the Plumber. Now wouldn't that
be special?

As it now stands, on election day I will go and cast my vote for John,
although Obama will likely win. Quite honestly, I seriously doubt
that either will survice their first year in office for various
reasons. So, either Joe Biden or SarahPalin will them become our
president. Which would be words? Dhuh!

I really liked the old system, where nobody knew who the candidate
would be until the last night of the convention. You went into the
convention with maybe 20 potential candidate, and when it ended there
was one. It was a silly system, but it worked quite well, and
certainly much better than the primary system that we use today. Keep
in mind that the USA is a Republic, and not a Democracy. There is a
very good reason for this, as well as their is for the electoral
college.

Harry C.
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Les Cargill

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Since: Jul 05, 2008
Posts: 14



(Msg. 110) Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:23 pm
Post subject: Re: More On This Farcical Election [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>arts>books, others (more info?)

Marko Amnell wrote:
> The link I gave below doesn't seem to work. But this one does,
> if you want to read the whole story:
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/03/27/students.abroad.ap/index.html
>
>


Yeah, yeah, yeah - I've read the articles before. The plural of
"anecdote" is not "data".

<snip>
--
Les Cargill
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Arindam Banerjee

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Since: Dec 23, 2007
Posts: 174



(Msg. 111) Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:04 am
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Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Oct 28, 6:23 am, Les Cargill wrote:
> Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> > "Les Cargill" wrote in message
> >
> <snip>
>
> >> The founding theorem of statistics. Google for the Wiki.
>
> > Lies, damned lies, are truer?
>
> Truth is where you find it. That is one way. I'd be hard
> pressed to give up say, thermodynamics or certain other
> statistically underwritten tools.

There are two major aspects to untruth. Firstly the laws/theories you
hold true may be totally wrong (such as those "proving" Einstein's
bullshit e=mcc, or Aristotlean worldview, or flat earth, or Creation,
or leeches) or partly wrong. Second, even a correct or partially law
can be bypassed using shonky methods - like in the field of
statistics, deliberately *not* going in for purely random samples, or
mistakenly not going in for purely random samples. Then there are
wrong assumptions, deliberate or natural ignorance, incompetence in
experimental setup, misreading of results, misreading of analysis of
results.... it is not that easy to be a true researcher, and thus
come to sound scientific conclusions.

Usually the purveyor of untruth is easy to find, though not to mask,
by the follower of truth. One sure way is to see them run away as
fast as possible, or indulge in hand-waving, negativity, abuse and
most powerfully, indifference. Also, the sight of those using
political or some institutional measure to ignore, or put down, is
indicative.

When one see the dominance of lying politicians, lying bankers, lying
celebrities, etc. in public life, why should one think that the top
scientists of our time could be or should be any different? The
glorious scientists of the past - who for the most part funded their
scientific efforts from their own resources - cannot survive in such a
poisonous atmosphere, where anything and everything shallow and phony
has to be done to get funding. What we now find is a mediocre mass of
PhuDs, huddling in and via institutions, fighting for funds.

> You simply cannot study people's aggregate behavior without
> statistical inference.

Not necessarily. The quality of the statistics involved, and the
honesty involved in the fact finding and analysing process, are the
real issues. Risk analysis was and is a most major mathematical
subject, and huge volumes of stuff have been written and published -
lots of PhDs have germinated. I personally know two of the most
eminent personalities in this field. Last year they assured me -
along with a couple of professors of economics - that the subprime
thingy was really nothing to worry about. Fortunately for myself, I
have done some original research work in the mathematical modelling of
telecom call centre networks' performances, and last year I applied
that knowledge to the management of my modest personal superannuation
funds, going not by any formal statistics as such, but simply perusing
the most obvious raw data. And have I gained, heh-heh! Okay, no one
consults me, for my methods are novel and unknown, but at least I have
saved myself huge sums of money!!

> <snip>
>
> >>> Were you more hated by the world then, or less?
>
> >> 1) Who cares? 2) I don't really know. Probably not - I suspect
> >> the British were at that point in time.
>
> > 1. Those USAns abroad who pretend to be Canadians.
>
> Is that even true?

I have heard so.

> > I strongly suspect that
> > our very pleasant and knowledgeable train companion in the Ghan who claimed
> > to be Canadian was actually a USAn.
>
> Could be. I would consider that people draw to invalid generalization
> based on where someone is from all the time.

My suspicion was based upon an earlier experience. When in NZ we had
met a charming couple, and when we asked them where they were from,
they mumbled USA and looked away. Note that in the Clinton years many
here in Melbourne were wearing I love you type of US t-shirt,
extolling some US university or something. In the last 8 years, I
have not seen a single such t-shirt, and no similar overt sign of
affection for the US.

> But there are worse things than being Canadian.
>
> > 2. The British (in India) were both loved and hated.
>
> Agreed. And the influence has been quite mixed.
>
> >  Loved by the elite and
> > the lower classes, and hated by the aspiring middle classes.  They did not
> > bring in debt, but brought in lots of useful things, which will be valued by
> > Indians in due course.
>
> Ironic in that the moral justification for Empire was to
> save the rank and file from exploitation by what
> descended from the Mughuls.

No, the moral justification of the British Raj was to provide
enlightened British Crown rule, with opportunities and liberties to
the Indians. This is clearly mentioned in the most wonderful
proclamation by Queen Victoria, and one may find that in the Victoria
Memorial in Kolkata. Thus the Raj superseded the most evil East India
Company, a capitalist enterprise which started out well but was later
corrupted by arrogance, robbery, racism and bigotry,

> <snip>
>
> >> No kidding? That's interesting.
>
> > Indeed.  Nehru grieves about it.  He said that if only Akbar had been more
> > interested in technical stuff, India could never have been conquered so
> > easily.
>
> I have to wonder, since India per se was so polyglot. My understanding
> is that some "castes" welcomed British intervention more than others
> ( and I don't mean to imply that I know which ones, nor that this is a
> well-founded belief).

Clive was in fact warmly feted by the business classes of Kolkata, who
were Hindus. They thus celebrated the outing of Muslim rule from
Bengal. This proneness to Hinduism soured him to the Christian bigots
in England, who from then onwards waged war against Hinduism in
various ways.

> India is just a stupefyingly complex place.

To me it is very interesting and also dynamic, with variations on well-
defined patterns of thought and behaviour. Any undue complexity to
the beholder arises out of the beholder's ignorance and pre-
conceptions.

> <snip>
>
> >> All I can do is note that where there is *rapid* increase in the quality
> >> of life ( such as we can measure it), debt is closely associated.
>
> > Money comes, money goes.  With equal rapidity.
>
> But goods and services accrete, like strat on a riverbed. The railroads
> were a debt bubble, but when the bubble receded, the tracks and trains
> were left.

Good point. However, one may argue that trains and tracks were
horrible to begin with. They caused a lot of misery in India, caused
lots of deaths (malaria) and displacements. I have read there were
small civil wars in the US. A far better technology (though arriving
later) based upon better science, would have served much better.

> > You win a lottery, and lose
> > at the sharemarket.  Debt is more usually associated with unhappiness,
> > anxiety, ill-health...
>
> If it hurts, you're doing it wrong. The sort of debt I mean isn't the
> sort we've seen for a while. The sort I mean is people financing
> enterprises to make goods or services to serve other people.

Well, all that is the reason for this current financial mess or isn't
it? Implicit in your statement is the belief/assumption that the
goods and services as output from borrower will be at least equal to
the input interest, depreciation, salary and other expenses - keeping
the principal owed looming in the background as a crushing negative
factor always. Any default due to sickness or bad luck, and whack the
banker will come with his bailiffs to demand his pound of flesh.
Strip you naked. Is this healthy? If your point is that the borrower
is willy-nilly being altruistic and suffering the pains of the damned
for his debt, then what price the Rand-Reagan neo-cons, who say that
capitalism is based upon selfishness and greed?

> We obviously have our problems with the concept as well.

My problem is that the technical reason for success is replaced with
the shonky one, that is debt.

> Debt, to me, is the concept best suited to defeat fatalisms.

Yes, there are many fatalistic cultures which also abhor debt, though
they may practise it in underhand ways. I am not sure if lack of debt
has to do with fatalism - but being in debt certainly makes one more
hard-working, so that the debt can be repaid. It also makes a person
opportunistic, fearful, narrow-minded yet malleable (as options that
would offend his creditors have to be restricted), materialistic,
mean, ungenerous, penny-pinching, not pay attention to his family/
culture, bootlicking, etc. Being out of debt, and living comfortably
too, is just a great way to enjoy life!

> It creates leverage for people to change station. Obviously,
> with all powerful tools, self-injury is a possibility.

Indeed.
>
> <snip>
>
> --
> Les Cargill
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Arindam Banerjee

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Since: Dec 23, 2007
Posts: 174



(Msg. 112) Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:09 am
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Just Me

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Since: Mar 01, 2008
Posts: 15



(Msg. 113) Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:59 am
Post subject: Aristotle & Einstein (was Re: More On This Farcical Election) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Arindam Banerjee" wrote in message


>>There are two major aspects to untruth. Firstly the laws/theories you
hold true may be totally wrong (such as those "proving" Einstein's
bullshit e=mcc, or Aristotlean worldview . . .<<

That again! Here you are right back up on your "Einstein was wrong"
hobby-horse, swinging your lasso and trying to rope Aristotle in on the same
bad roundup. Well, let me tell you something Mr. Banerjee, Two can ride in
this rodeo!

I'm saying that ain't no horse you're mounted up on there, son, but just a
big ol' bunch of BULL, and I got a mind to rope you down off it, for once
and for all.

You just say, "Yippee-Ti-Yi-Yay" if you're up to the challenge, as I make my
boisterous, blustering boast that I can ride circles around you on the
subjects of both Einstein and Aristotle, to show in the end without recourse
to so much as a single equation beyond e=mc^2 that you are now as you've
always been, way off on a wild goose chase with respect to this subject.

If you are up to it, then let the dialectic begin in a cordial, orderly,
rational, unemotional fashion with these two questions, which will show
whether you do or do not have a firm grasp on the fundamentals of that which
you so flagrantly criticize.

1. In the Organon of Aristotle, what do you conceive to be the epistemology
and method of Categorical Logic?

2. In the General Theory of Relativity, what is Einstein talking about when
he states within scope of his "Principle of Equivalence" that gravity and
inertia are the same, or if you prefer, "equivalent"?

As to the second question: what you have there is precisely the foundation
upon which the entire edifice of GR is built. Please state your
understanding of it and your objection to it.

If we cannot begin at the foundation, there is no way to begin at all.
--
JM http://bobbisoxsnatchers.blogspot.com
http://whosenose.blogspot.com
http://doo-dads.blogspot.com
http://jesusexegesis.blogspot.com
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Arindam Banerjee

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Since: Dec 23, 2007
Posts: 174



(Msg. 114) Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:34 am
Post subject: Re: More On This Farcical Election [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>arts>books, others (more info?)

On Oct 24, 7:18 am, wrote:
> On Oct 22, 1:35 pm, Fred Kasner wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> > > On Oct 22, 12:46 pm, "DanB (Previously DB)" wrote:
> > >> Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> > >>> On Oct 22, 10:17 am, "DanB (Previously DB)" wrote:
> > >>>> Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> > >>>>> On Oct 22, 1:00 am, "DanB (Previously DB)" wrote:
> > >>>>>> Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> > >>>>>>> "DanB (Previously DB)" wrote in message
> > >>>>>>>> How is that?
> > >>>>>>> You shut him off, so that narrows your mind.
> > >>>>>> Giving credibility to kooks broadens my mind. That doesn't make sense.
> > >>>>> Any *initial* dismissive attitude is a negative attitude, and is also
> > >>>>> unscientific.
> > >>>> It does not work like that. I have been around the block with free
> > >>>> energy kooks all too often. So, if some kook comes along and says I can
> > >>>> run my car on water, I should give this credence. I have written
> > >>>> countless times why doing so would be a waste of time.
> > >>> Do so again.  I have given a proposal to the Australian Govt. to make
> > >>> the whole world run on water, with sun, wind, nuclear, coal, etc. as
> > >>> well.  They have said, they are trialling hydrogen buses which will
> > >>> run on hydrogen and produce water - no carbon involved at all.  So I
> > >>> am glad that the Minister does not have a closed mind, like yours.
> > >> Listen Arindam,
> > >> I've been crunching energy numbers for going on a decade. If you think
> > >> hydrogen will save us, you have _not_ done your homework. That 'closed
> > >> mind' rant is pitiful. The sign of a crank.
>
> > > I can feel your emotion, but I do not find any associated logic or
> > > wisdom. Have you at least read what I have written in
>
> > >www.users.bigpond.com/adda1234/HP.htm
>
> > > It so happens that the US President, Mr George Bush himself endorses
> > > the Hydrogen Economy as the future way to go, and I have offered a
> > > solution that is most relevant for Australia. If the leader of the
> > > most technically advanced nation in the world endorses a *technical*
> > > approach, it would be foolish to reject it just like that.
>
> > >  The work presented in the website is more of a show and selling type
> > > - I have given a confidential technical brief for the implementation
> > > aspects to the Australian Govt as well, and I hope to work with energy
> > > and chemistry professionals for further submissions involving patents
> > > and inventions.  The scope is very big!  I am very glad to have found
> > > a lovely pattern as a complete and wonderful solution to the world's
> > > energy, pollution, climate and water problems. Presently it is a vison
> > > integrated from diverse techncial parts, like a realised multi-piece
> > > puzzle.
>
> > > Cheers,
>
> > > Arindam Banerjee.
>
> > Sorry you limited twerp. It is clear that you along with that idiot
> > George Bush have essentially zero knowledge about science. You can't get
> > anywhere near a break-even amount of energy from hydrogen. It is not a
> > free resource on planet Earth. It is already "burned" in its most common
> > form - water.
> > FK
>
> It's most common form is "natural water" which has been
> electrostaticly charged by the earth's atmosphere consisting of
> photons, ions, lightning, gravity, et al.
> It essentially not "ash" or dead as a pure H20 molecule in stasis
> would be considered and analyzed.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

From information available, electricity flows easily through salty
water, like sea water. Electrolysis is a safe and easy process.
There are kits available in the market. One Australian guy even came
on TV, saying that he is running his car better with water! Actually
he has put in one of those kits in his car. The battery converts the
water to hydrogen, and that goes in with the petrol to his engine. He
claims to get higher mileage. Now, that has been shown on television,
as demonstration. I did some checks on Internet, and yes those kits
are available. I have not tried them, and I cannot say how efficient
they are. But surely the effiiciency factor to convert water to
hydrogen to energy must be pretty high, at least 60-70% which is what
my much more informed university source says.

Arindam Banerjee.
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adda12342

External


Since: Jan 29, 2005
Posts: 117



(Msg. 115) Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:25 am
Post subject: Re: Aristotle & Einstein (was Re: More On This Farcical Election) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>arts>books, others (more info?)

"Just Me" wrote in message

>
> "Arindam Banerjee" wrote in message
>
>
>>>There are two major aspects to untruth. Firstly the laws/theories you
> hold true may be totally wrong (such as those "proving" Einstein's
> bullshit e=mcc, or Aristotlean worldview . . .<<
>
> That again! Here you are right back up on your "Einstein was wrong"
> hobby-horse, swinging your lasso and trying to rope Aristotle in on the
> same bad roundup. Well, let me tell you something Mr. Banerjee, Two can
> ride in this rodeo!

Aristotle and Einstein both said the same thing effectively, that the earth
is still. Do some searching to find my article debunking the infamous
Michelson-Morley interferometry results, the source of all ths Einsteinian
relativistic psuedo-physics, and the chief cause for all the ills of the
planets. If you like, I will repost it.

> I'm saying that ain't no horse you're mounted up on there, son, but just a
> big ol' bunch of BULL, and I got a mind to rope you down off it, for once
> and for all.

Let us see.

> You just say, "Yippee-Ti-Yi-Yay" if you're up to the challenge, as I make
> my boisterous, blustering boast that I can ride circles around you on the
> subjects of both Einstein and Aristotle, to show in the end without
> recourse to so much as a single equation beyond e=mc^2 that you are now
> as you've always been, way off on a wild goose chase with respect to this
> subject.

Nothing so far

> If you are up to it, then let the dialectic begin in a cordial, orderly,
> rational, unemotional fashion with these two questions, which will show
> whether you do or do not have a firm grasp on the fundamentals of that
> which you so flagrantly criticize.

First find my article/s. Should not be that difficult. Second read it.
Third understand it - now this I am afraid could be well beyond your
intellect. Should you find some detail there which you cannot understand,
point it out.

>
> 1. In the Organon of Aristotle, what do you conceive to be the
> epistemology and method of Categorical Logic?

Irrelevant. All that is relevant about Aristotle - in the context of
relativity - is the fact that he thought the sun moved around the earth,
and the stars as well, in their crystal spheres. And beyond the stars,
there was Heaven of course. This thought lasted for many centuries in the
European world.

> 2. In the General Theory of Relativity, what is Einstein talking about
> when he states within scope of his "Principle of Equivalence" that gravity
> and inertia are the same, or if you prefer, "equivalent"?

Well, they are not the same. Gravity is a force, and inertia is a condition.
The big question is, how long are people going to tolerate Einstein and his
followers? How long are they going to fund superconducting supercolliders
(heh-heh) and the current black hole experiment in Europe? Heh-heh, some
black hole they have produced, so far as share money is concerned...

> As to the second question: what you have there is precisely the foundation
> upon which the entire edifice of GR is built. Please state your
> understanding of it and your objection to it.

SR and GR are all bullshit. What is partly right is the law of conservation
of energy, when there are no internal forces involved. If you want to be
sane, and happy, read my new physics and understand the world better, as I
do.

> If we cannot begin at the foundation, there is no way to begin at all.

The foundation is in the new formula equating energy and mass, well
explained in my book "To the Stars!" in
www.users.bigpond.com/adda1234/index.htm I wrote that several years ago,
and if the world was not run by unspeakables, much good should have happened
by now. The formula is based upon a new understanding of motion
principles - and it explains a great deal about the energies of the
universe, from the atom bomb, from any explosion. It so happens that a new
experiment on rail guns in the University of Texas validates my point.

The only thing that needs changing is my explanation for moving a body with
internal force. That needs revising, since much work has been done on that
subject. Otherwise, the theory, the formula, the application are all
spot-on.

Arindam Banerjee.


> --
> JM http://bobbisoxsnatchers.blogspot.com
> http://whosenose.blogspot.com
> http://doo-dads.blogspot.com
> http://jesusexegesis.blogspot.com
>
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adda12342

External


Since: Jan 29, 2005
Posts: 117



(Msg. 116) Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:25 am
Post subject: The Hydrogen Transmission Network [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>arts>books, others (more info?)

Sorry about the late reply. More within.

"Rob Dekker" wrote in message

>
> "Arindam Banerjee" wrote in message
>
>> On Oct 22, 12:46 pm, "DanB (Previously DB)" wrote:
>> > Arindam Banerjee wrote:
>> > > On Oct 22, 10:17 am, "DanB (Previously DB)" wrote:
>> > >> Arindam Banerjee wrote:
>> > >>> On Oct 22, 1:00 am, "DanB (Previously DB)" wrote:
>> > >>>> Arindam Banerjee wrote:
>> > >>>>> "DanB (Previously DB)" wrote in message
>> > >>>>>> How is that?
>> > >>>>> You shut him off, so that narrows your mind.
>> > >>>> Giving credibility to kooks broadens my mind. That doesn't make
> sense.
>> > >>> Any *initial* dismissive attitude is a negative attitude, and is
> also
>> > >>> unscientific.
>
>> > >> It does not work like that. I have been around the block with free
>> > >> energy kooks all too often. So, if some kook comes along and says I
> can
>> > >> run my car on water, I should give this credence. I have written
>> > >> countless times why doing so would be a waste of time.
>> >
>> > > Do so again. I have given a proposal to the Australian Govt. to make
>> > > the whole world run on water, with sun, wind, nuclear, coal, etc. as
>> > > well. They have said, they are trialling hydrogen buses which will
>> > > run on hydrogen and produce water - no carbon involved at all. So I
>> > > am glad that the Minister does not have a closed mind, like yours.
>> >
>> > Listen Arindam,
>> > I've been crunching energy numbers for going on a decade. If you think
>> > hydrogen will save us, you have _not_ done your homework. That 'closed
>> > mind' rant is pitiful. The sign of a crank.
>>
>> I can feel your emotion, but I do not find any associated logic or
>> wisdom. Have you at least read what I have written in
>>
>> www.users.bigpond.com/adda1234/HP.htm
>>
>
> Arindam,
>
> Is this a screenplay for a bollywood movie ? A dream story with 'plays' ?

Why are you trying to be dismissive? The plays are actually show and sell
tactics, and they do contain a lot of information, expressed briefly and
with effect. I have done a fair bit of groundwork before putting in the
figures in the plays, using data from my energy and water bills, and seeing
sites on hydrogen.

> Where do you get this stuff ?

From the great Goddess, like all my other new and wonderful ideas. It is
Her gift, so far as I am concerned. I of course take a lot of pain and
effort to form them in my mind, sequence them, and then write them down.
That is my tribute to Her.

> You state "A great deal of research work relating to the "dream solution"
> has already been done."

Well yes, there has been a lot of research in solar cells for electricity.
Today I got a flyer saying that for 10m^2 panel I would get 1KW for $4000.
If they are at this stage, no doubt they would have already done a lot of
research. Then, the research on fuel cells is known. A Hydrogen pipe in
Germany has worked for fifty years. The whole idea for me has been to put
them - all these pieces - together as a grand pattern, and that I have shown
in my essay and plays. Yes, there is a need to make a few inventions,
reasonably trivial in scope though, and they are not mentioned in the site,
for certain confidential reasons. I have written a technical submission
where I have outlined the scope of the technical work, and given it to my
local MP who has shown interest. I expect him to forward it to the
Minister, who had earlier written an encouraging response to my work. Then,
let us see.

> Where are references to that research work ? What are the findings of a
> hydrogen energy network ?

A new conceptual invention, amounting to a pattern indicating a set of
activity and resource organisation, is by nature something that does not
exist, and so, cannot have any "findings". It is only to be presented for
discussion. You can only refer an original work, but the essay does have a
few references.

> In absense of any scientifically sound references, are you completely
> ignoring the obvious inefficiencies of a hydrogen future ?

There are plenty of references in the work. However I do not claim to be an
expert in this field, so I have consulted other experts in Chemical
Engineering and Chemistry, who are experts, and they have endorsed my
approach. It is a question of time before it will be taken seriously by most
people, and seen for the great and wonderful pattern it is, and the huge
benefits accruing. The experts are making a flow chart/process, using my
technical submission.

For one, the cycle efficiency of hydrogen sucks. Electricity to hydrogen
> back to electricity (which is what you need for a hydrogen-powered
> vehicles)
> is in the range of 25%.

Electricity to hydrogen to electricity is actually 60-70%, so I have been
told my a PhD student on Hydrogen storage who has endorsed my work. *FREE*
Solar energy to electricity is of the order of 20-30%. So we will get
around 12-21% efficiency with the Hydrogen Transmission Network (which is
most importantly lossless and so effectively distance independent). Even if
your figure of 25% is right, we would still have 3-7.5% efficiency which is
the very lowest, and subject to gain with betterment of technology. Then
there is the great side effect of pure water (a huge desalination system,
very useful for Australia) pure oxygen and also pure hydrogen if wanted for
chemical use. Not ot speak of the gains from not having carbon formations,
and thus meeting carbon emission requirements. Then the hydrogen pipe is
expected to be very cheap as opposed to the lossy and expensive high voltage
electicity transmission.

> Batteries do a lot better at 85-95% cycle
> efficiency, and there is already a distribution network for electricity in
> place (it's called the grid).

Batteries or Hydrogen Engines (an invention to be) are there at the
consumption end. The grid will take in electricity from consumption centres
and pass them to industry. Please read my work a bit more carefully.

>And I did not even mention the abysmal
> properties of hydrogen storage.

The expert I met talked about hydrides for hydrogen storage, but my work (
you have not read it) is to make it a continuous flow system with buffering
for storage and flow control, and vehicle fuel. So the issue of storage is
a matter of secondary importance, as it is a flow process with continuous
generation and consumption. That is indeed the big idea of the Hydrogen
Transmission Network - a lossless, efficient, non-polluting, water
generating, carbon-zero, reliable energy system for our future needs.


>> It so happens that the US President, Mr George Bush himself endorses
>> the Hydrogen Economy as the future way to go, and I have offered a
>> solution that is most relevant for Australia. If the leader of the
>> most technically advanced nation in the world endorses a *technical*
>> approach, it would be foolish to reject it just like that.
>
> Either you are very sarcastic or you are finding a political reason to
> validate your statements.

No, I am being sincere. Why shouldn't I be?

> Either way it's not a good basis for a future energy solution.

I beg to disagree. I hold that is the ideal future energy solution. I
apprehend that vested interests will do their best to jeopardise it, out of
misplaced fear. So a play in the work shows why and how everyone really
gains from my new invention.

> I suggest you do your own simple cycle efficiency calculations, or find a
> way to store 500 megajoule hydrogen for a few months in a 20 kg container,
> or calculate the cost of a nation-wide hydrogen distribution network, and
> compare these to an 'electric dream' solution. Then tell us which one has
> better economics.

Well, that is being done now. I do not see why hydrogen needs to be stored
for a few months, in a flow process that is continuously consuming it. The
side effect of pure and also warm water is totally neglected by you, I see.
However, that is an equally major factor in Australia, and other countries
as well where there is sun and sea for hundreds of kilometers. I do not
think a hydrogen transmission network will be more expensive than a HV
network - it should be far cheaper. But, the costing has to be done of
course.

> In case you did not yet get it : the hydrogen society was and always will
> be
> the society of the future.

The Minister has told me that in Australia we are already trialling hydrogen
buses, and that there is a conference on a hydrogen roadmap to take place.
So, I feel more confident than you. Well, a new idea such as mine was not
presented earlier, so there was no takeoff in the past, in this line. But
now, it is another story.

>> The work presented in the website is more of a show and selling type
>> - I have given a confidential technical brief for the implementation
>> aspects to the Australian Govt as well, and I hope to work with energy
>> and chemistry professionals for further submissions involving patents
>> and inventions. The scope is very big! I am very glad to have found
>> a lovely pattern as a complete and wonderful solution to the world's
>> energy, pollution, climate and water problems. Presently it is a vison
>> integrated from diverse techncial parts, like a realised multi-piece
>> puzzle.
>
> Dan, where do these guys come from ?

Asking for reinforcements, eh?

> Who on Earth can live in the clouds like this, without any shred of
> technical merit supporting their statements ?

None so blind, who will not see. I have over 30 years of technical
experience. What about you?

>> Cheers,
>>
>> Arindam Banerjee.
>>
>
>
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adda12342

External


Since: Jan 29, 2005
Posts: 117



(Msg. 117) Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:25 am
Post subject: Re: More On This Farcical Election [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Don Lancaster" wrote in message

> Rob Dekker wrote:
>>
>> For one, the cycle efficiency of hydrogen sucks. Electricity to hydrogen
>> back to electricity (which is what you need for a hydrogen-powered
>> vehicles)
>> is in the range of 25%.
> IJHE uses a 12 percent figure, but this seems outrageously high.
>
> 2.5 percent BEFORE amortization would be more likely.
>
> Exergy GUARANTEES electricity-->hydrogen-->electricity flat out ain't
> gonna happen.

Rubbish, whatever happened then to the law of conservation of energy? The
electric energy gone into electrolysis has to manifest as chemical energy,
with some losses. 60-70% figure has already been mentioned to me.
Experiment will prove that, one way or the other. In the meantime, even if
it is 1%, it will be more energy giving than every bloody fusion effort!

Try harder to disprove, instead of just abusing me and handwaving.

>
> http://www.tinaja.com/glib/morenrgf.pdf
>
>
>
> --
> Many thanks,
>
> Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
> Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
> rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: don.RemoveThis@tinaja.com
>
> Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com
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Fred Kasner

External


Since: Oct 22, 2008
Posts: 4



(Msg. 118) Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:49 pm
Post subject: Re: The Hydrogen Transmission Network [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> Sorry about the late reply. More within.
>
> "Rob Dekker" wrote in message
>
>> "Arindam Banerjee" wrote in message
>>
>>> On Oct 22, 12:46 pm, "DanB (Previously DB)" wrote:
>>>> Arindam Banerjee wrote:
>>>>> On Oct 22, 10:17 am, "DanB (Previously DB)" wrote:
>>>>>> Arindam Banerjee wrote:
>>>>>>> On Oct 22, 1:00 am, "DanB (Previously DB)" wrote:
>>>>>>>> Arindam Banerjee wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "DanB (Previously DB)" wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> How is that?
>>>>>>>>> You shut him off, so that narrows your mind.
>>>>>>>> Giving credibility to kooks broadens my mind. That doesn't make
>> sense.
>>>>>>> Any *initial* dismissive attitude is a negative attitude, and is
>> also
>>>>>>> unscientific.
>>>>>> It does not work like that. I have been around the block with free
>>>>>> energy kooks all too often. So, if some kook comes along and says I
>> can
>>>>>> run my car on water, I should give this credence. I have written
>>>>>> countless times why doing so would be a waste of time.
>>>>> Do so again. I have given a proposal to the Australian Govt. to make
>>>>> the whole world run on water, with sun, wind, nuclear, coal, etc. as
>>>>> well. They have said, they are trialling hydrogen buses which will
>>>>> run on hydrogen and produce water - no carbon involved at all. So I
>>>>> am glad that the Minister does not have a closed mind, like yours.
>>>> Listen Arindam,
>>>> I've been crunching energy numbers for going on a decade. If you think
>>>> hydrogen will save us, you have _not_ done your homework. That 'closed
>>>> mind' rant is pitiful. The sign of a crank.
>>> I can feel your emotion, but I do not find any associated logic or
>>> wisdom. Have you at least read what I have written in
>>>
>>> www.users.bigpond.com/adda1234/HP.htm
>>>
>> Arindam,
>>
>> Is this a screenplay for a bollywood movie ? A dream story with 'plays' ?
>
> Why are you trying to be dismissive? The plays are actually show and sell
> tactics, and they do contain a lot of information, expressed briefly and
> with effect. I have done a fair bit of groundwork before putting in the
> figures in the plays, using data from my energy and water bills, and seeing
> sites on hydrogen.
>
>> Where do you get this stuff ?
>
> From the great Goddess, like all my other new and wonderful ideas. It is
> Her gift, so far as I am concerned. I of course take a lot of pain and
> effort to form them in my mind, sequence them, and then write them down.
> That is my tribute to Her.
>
>> You state "A great deal of research work relating to the "dream solution"
>> has already been done."
>
> Well yes, there has been a lot of research in solar cells for electricity.
> Today I got a flyer saying that for 10m^2 panel I would get 1KW for $4000.
> If they are at this stage, no doubt they would have already done a lot of
> research. Then, the research on fuel cells is known. A Hydrogen pipe in
> Germany has worked for fifty years. The whole idea for me has been to put
> them - all these pieces - together as a grand pattern, and that I have shown
> in my essay and plays. Yes, there is a need to make a few inventions,
> reasonably trivial in scope though, and they are not mentioned in the site,
> for certain confidential reasons. I have written a technical submission
> where I have outlined the scope of the technical work, and given it to my
> local MP who has shown interest. I expect him to forward it to the
> Minister, who had earlier written an encouraging response to my work. Then,
> let us see.
>
>> Where are references to that research work ? What are the findings of a
>> hydrogen energy network ?
>
> A new conceptual invention, amounting to a pattern indicating a set of
> activity and resource organisation, is by nature something that does not
> exist, and so, cannot have any "findings". It is only to be presented for
> discussion. You can only refer an original work, but the essay does have a
> few references.
>
>> In absense of any scientifically sound references, are you completely
>> ignoring the obvious inefficiencies of a hydrogen future ?
>
> There are plenty of references in the work. However I do not claim to be an
> expert in this field, so I have consulted other experts in Chemical
> Engineering and Chemistry, who are experts, and they have endorsed my
> approach. It is a question of time before it will be taken seriously by most
> people, and seen for the great and wonderful pattern it is, and the huge
> benefits accruing. The experts are making a flow chart/process, using my
> technical submission.
>
> For one, the cycle efficiency of hydrogen sucks. Electricity to hydrogen
>> back to electricity (which is what you need for a hydrogen-powered
>> vehicles)
>> is in the range of 25%.
>
> Electricity to hydrogen to electricity is actually 60-70%, so I have been
> told my a PhD student on Hydrogen storage who has endorsed my work. *FREE*
> Solar energy to electricity is of the order of 20-30%. So we will get
> around 12-21% efficiency with the Hydrogen Transmission Network (which is
> most importantly lossless and so effectively distance independent). Even if
> your figure of 25% is right, we would still have 3-7.5% efficiency which is
> the very lowest, and subject to gain with betterment of technology. Then
> there is the great side effect of pure water (a huge desalination system,
> very useful for Australia) pure oxygen and also pure hydrogen if wanted for
> chemical use. Not ot speak of the gains from not having carbon formations,
> and thus meeting carbon emission requirements. Then the hydrogen pipe is
> expected to be very cheap as opposed to the lossy and expensive high voltage
> electicity transmission.
>
>> Batteries do a lot better at 85-95% cycle
>> efficiency, and there is already a distribution network for electricity in
>> place (it's called the grid).
>
> Batteries or Hydrogen Engines (an invention to be) are there at the
> consumption end. The grid will take in electricity from consumption centres
> and pass them to industry. Please read my work a bit more carefully.
>
>> And I did not even mention the abysmal
>> properties of hydrogen storage.
>
> The expert I met talked about hydrides for hydrogen storage, but my work (
> you have not read it) is to make it a continuous flow system with buffering
> for storage and flow control, and vehicle fuel. So the issue of storage is
> a matter of secondary importance, as it is a flow process with continuous
> generation and consumption. That is indeed the big idea of the Hydrogen
> Transmission Network - a lossless, efficient, non-polluting, water
> generating, carbon-zero, reliable energy system for our future needs.
>
>
>>> It so happens that the US President, Mr George Bush himself endorses
>>> the Hydrogen Economy as the future way to go, and I have offered a
>>> solution that is most relevant for Australia. If the leader of the
>>> most technically advanced nation in the world endorses a *technical*
>>> approach, it would be foolish to reject it just like that.
>> Either you are very sarcastic or you are finding a political reason to
>> validate your statements.
>
> No, I am being sincere. Why shouldn't I be?
>
>> Either way it's not a good basis for a future energy solution.
>
> I beg to disagree. I hold that is the ideal future energy solution. I
> apprehend that vested interests will do their best to jeopardise it, out of
> misplaced fear. So a play in the work shows why and how everyone really
> gains from my new invention.
>
>> I suggest you do your own simple cycle efficiency calculations, or find a
>> way to store 500 megajoule hydrogen for a few months in a 20 kg container,
>> or calculate the cost of a nation-wide hydrogen distribution network, and
>> compare these to an 'electric dream' solution. Then tell us which one has
>> better economics.
>
> Well, that is being done now. I do not see why hydrogen needs to be stored
> for a few months, in a flow process that is continuously consuming it. The
> side effect of pure and also warm water is totally neglected by you, I see.
> However, that is an equally major factor in Australia, and other countries
> as well where there is sun and sea for hundreds of kilometers. I do not
> think a hydrogen transmission network will be more expensive than a HV
> network - it should be far cheaper. But, the costing has to be done of
> course.
>
>> In case you did not yet get it : the hydrogen society was and always will
>> be
>> the society of the future.
>
> The Minister has told me that in Australia we are already trialling hydrogen
> buses, and that there is a conference on a hydrogen roadmap to take place.
> So, I feel more confident than you. Well, a new idea such as mine was not
> presented earlier, so there was no takeoff in the past, in this line. But
> now, it is another story.
>
>>> The work presented in the website is more of a show and selling type
>>> - I have given a confidential technical brief for the implementation
>>> aspects to the Australian Govt as well, and I hope to work with energy
>>> and chemistry professionals for further submissions involving patents
>>> and inventions. The scope is very big! I am very glad to have found
>>> a lovely pattern as a complete and wonderful solution to the world's
>>> energy, pollution, climate and water problems. Presently it is a vison
>>> integrated from diverse techncial parts, like a realised multi-piece
>>> puzzle.
>> Dan, where do these guys come from ?
>
> Asking for reinforcements, eh?
>
>> Who on Earth can live in the clouds like this, without any shred of
>> technical merit supporting their statements ?
>
> None so blind, who will not see. I have over 30 years of technical
> experience. What about you?
>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Arindam Banerjee.
>>>
>>
>
>

Sounds like a lot of nonsensical claims without even the elements of
details to demonstrate that it is violating fundamental physical laws.
And as for technical experience here: Ph.D. physical chemistry U. of
Chicago.
FK
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Michael Coburn

External


Since: Oct 13, 2008
Posts: 6



(Msg. 119) Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:25 pm
Post subject: Re: More On This Farcical Election [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 04:34:17 -0700, Arindam Banerjee wrote:

> On Oct 24, 7:18 am, wrote:
>> On Oct 22, 1:35 pm, Fred Kasner wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Arindam Banerjee wrote:
>> > > On Oct 22, 12:46 pm, "DanB (Previously DB)" wrote:
>> > >> Arindam Banerjee wrote:
>> > >>> On Oct 22, 10:17 am, "DanB (Previously DB)"
>> > >>> wrote:
>> > >>>> Arindam Banerjee wrote:
>> > >>>>> On Oct 22, 1:00 am, "DanB (Previously DB)"
>> > >>>>> wrote:
>> > >>>>>> Arindam Banerjee wrote:
>> > >>>>>>> "DanB (Previously DB)" wrote in message
>> > >>>>>>>> How is that?
>> > >>>>>>> You shut him off, so that narrows your mind.
>> > >>>>>> Giving credibility to kooks broadens my mind. That doesn't
>> > >>>>>> make sense.
>> > >>>>> Any *initial* dismissive attitude is a negative attitude, and
>> > >>>>> is also unscientific.
>> > >>>> It does not work like that. I have been around the block with
>> > >>>> free energy kooks all too often. So, if some kook comes along
>> > >>>> and says I can run my car on water, I should give this credence.
>> > >>>> I have written countless times why doing so would be a waste of
>> > >>>> time.
>> > >>> Do so again.  I have given a proposal to the Australian Govt. to
>> > >>> make the whole world run on water, with sun, wind, nuclear, coal,
>> > >>> etc. as well.  They have said, they are trialling hydrogen buses
>> > >>> which will run on hydrogen and produce water - no carbon involved
>> > >>> at all.  So I am glad that the Minister does not have a closed
>> > >>> mind, like yours.
>> > >> Listen Arindam,
>> > >> I've been crunching energy numbers for going on a decade. If you
>> > >> think hydrogen will save us, you have _not_ done your homework.
>> > >> That 'closed mind' rant is pitiful. The sign of a crank.
>>
>> > > I can feel your emotion, but I do not find any associated logic or
>> > > wisdom. Have you at least read what I have written in
>>
>> > >www.users.bigpond.com/adda1234/HP.htm
>>
>> > > It so happens that the US President, Mr George Bush himself
>> > > endorses the Hydrogen Economy as the future way to go, and I have
>> > > offered a solution that is most relevant for Australia. If the
>> > > leader of the most technically advanced nation in the world
>> > > endorses a *technical* approach, it would be foolish to reject it
>> > > just like that.
>>
>> > >  The work presented in the website is more of a show and selling
>> > >  type
>> > > - I have given a confidential technical brief for the
>> > > implementation aspects to the Australian Govt as well, and I hope
>> > > to work with energy and chemistry professionals for further
>> > > submissions involving patents and inventions.  The scope is very
>> > > big!  I am very glad to have found a lovely pattern as a complete
>> > > and wonderful solution to the world's energy, pollution, climate
>> > > and water problems. Presently it is a vison integrated from diverse
>> > > techncial parts, like a realised multi-piece puzzle.
>>
>> > > Cheers,
>>
>> > > Arindam Banerjee.
>>
>> > Sorry you limited twerp. It is clear that you along with that idiot
>> > George Bush have essentially zero knowledge about science. You can't
>> > get anywhere near a break-even amount of energy from hydrogen. It is
>> > not a free resource on planet Earth. It is already "burned" in its
>> > most common form - water.
>> > FK
>>
>> It's most common form is "natural water" which has been electrostaticly
>> charged by the earth's atmosphere consisting of photons, ions,
>> lightning, gravity, et al. It essentially not "ash" or dead as a pure
>> H20 molecule in stasis would be considered and analyzed.- Hide quoted
>> text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> From information available, electricity flows easily through salty
> water, like sea water. Electrolysis is a safe and easy process. There
> are kits available in the market. One Australian guy even came on TV,
> saying that he is running his car better with water! Actually he has
> put in one of those kits in his car. The battery converts the water to
> hydrogen, and that goes in with the petrol to his engine. He claims to
> get higher mileage. Now, that has been shown on television, as
> demonstration. I did some checks on Internet, and yes those kits are
> available. I have not tried them, and I cannot say how efficient they
> are. But surely the effiiciency factor to convert water to hydrogen to
> energy must be pretty high, at least 60-70% which is what my much more
> informed university source says.
>
> Arindam Banerjee.

The only rationale for increased mileage is the claim that the petrol
burns more effectively (less waste) and that it will burn at a lower
temperature allowing a leaner mixture. But you can't create hydrogen at
60% efficiency and then expect a gain by burning the hydrogen. That
don't compute.
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Arindam Banerjee

External


Since: Dec 23, 2007
Posts: 174



(Msg. 120) Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:10 pm
Post subject: Re: More On This Farcical Election [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Oct 30, 5:16 am, Michael Coburn wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 04:34:17 -0700, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> > On Oct 24, 7:18 am, wrote:
> >> On Oct 22, 1:35 pm, Fred Kasner wrote:
>
> >> > Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> >> > > On Oct 22, 12:46 pm, "DanB (Previously DB)" wrote:
> >> > >> Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> >> > >>> On Oct 22, 10:17 am, "DanB (Previously DB)"
> >> > >>> wrote:
> >> > >>>> Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> >> > >>>>> On Oct 22, 1:00 am, "DanB (Previously DB)"
> >> > >>>>> wrote:
> >> > >>>>>> Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>> "DanB (Previously DB)" wrote in message
> >> > >>>>>>>> How is that?
> >> > >>>>>>> You shut him off, so that narrows your mind.
> >> > >>>>>> Giving credibility to kooks broadens my mind. That doesn't
> >> > >>>>>> make sense.
> >> > >>>>> Any *initial* dismissive attitude is a negative attitude, and
> >> > >>>>> is also unscientific.
> >> > >>>> It does not work like that. I have been around the block with
> >> > >>>> free energy kooks all too often. So, if some kook comes along
> >> > >>>> and says I can run my car on water, I should give this credence..
> >> > >>>> I have written countless times why doing so would be a waste of
> >> > >>>> time.
> >> > >>> Do so again.  I have given a proposal to the Australian Govt. to
> >> > >>> make the whole world run on water, with sun, wind, nuclear, coal,
> >> > >>> etc. as well.  They have said, they are trialling hydrogen buses
> >> > >>> which will run on hydrogen and produce water - no carbon involved
> >> > >>> at all.  So I am glad that the Minister does not have a closed
> >> > >>> mind, like yours.
> >> > >> Listen Arindam,
> >> > >> I've been crunching energy numbers for going on a decade. If you
> >> > >> think hydrogen will save us, you have _not_ done your homework.
> >> > >> That 'closed mind' rant is pitiful. The sign of a crank.
>
> >> > > I can feel your emotion, but I do not find any associated logic or
> >> > > wisdom. Have you at least read what I have written in
>
> >> > >www.users.bigpond.com/adda1234/HP.htm
>
> >> > > It so happens that the US President, Mr George Bush himself
> >> > > endorses the Hydrogen Economy as the future way to go, and I have
> >> > > offered a solution that is most relevant for Australia. If the
> >> > > leader of the most technically advanced nation in the world
> >> > > endorses a *technical* approach, it would be foolish to reject it
> >> > > just like that.
>
> >> > >  The work presented in the website is more of a show and selling
> >> > >  type
> >> > > - I have given a confidential technical brief for the
> >> > > implementation aspects to the Australian Govt as well, and I hope
> >> > > to work with energy and chemistry professionals for further
> >> > > submissions involving patents and inventions.  The scope is very
> >> > > big!  I am very glad to have found a lovely pattern as a complete
> >> > > and wonderful solution to the world's energy, pollution, climate
> >> > > and water problems. Presently it is a vison integrated from diverse
> >> > > techncial parts, like a realised multi-piece puzzle.
>
> >> > > Cheers,
>
> >> > > Arindam Banerjee.
>
> >> > Sorry you limited twerp. It is clear that you along with that idiot
> >> > George Bush have essentially zero knowledge about science. You can't
> >> > get anywhere near a break-even amount of energy from hydrogen. It is
> >> > not a free resource on planet Earth. It is already "burned" in its
> >> > most common form - water.
> >> > FK
>
> >> It's most common form is "natural water" which has been electrostaticly
> >> charged by the earth's atmosphere consisting of photons, ions,
> >> lightning, gravity, et al. It essentially not "ash" or dead as a pure
> >> H20 molecule in stasis would be considered and analyzed.- Hide quoted
> >> text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > From information available, electricity flows easily through salty
> > water, like sea water.  Electrolysis is a safe and easy process. There
> > are kits available in the market.  One Australian guy even came on TV,
> > saying that he is running his car better with water!  Actually he has
> > put in one of those kits in his car.  The battery converts the water to
> > hydrogen, and that goes in with the petrol to his engine.  He claims to
> > get higher mileage.  Now, that has been shown on television, as
> > demonstration.  I did some checks on Internet, and yes those kits are
> > available. I have not tried them, and I cannot say how efficient they
> > are. But surely the effiiciency factor to convert water to hydrogen to
> > energy must be pretty high, at least 60-70% which is what my much more
> > informed university source says.
>
> > Arindam Banerjee.
>
> The only rationale for increased mileage is the claim that the petrol
> burns more effectively (less waste) and that it will burn at a lower
> temperature allowing a leaner mixture.  

Actually since it is burning hydrogen it should burn at a higher
temperature. However less petrol is used, so there is a saving, as
was noted.

This is sort-of equivalent to using LPG (which has higher hydrogen
content to burn, as opposed to petrol, and is thus more
environmentally friendly) which is what I personally use in my 91
Ford Falcon. The mechanic said that LPG burns hotter and destroys the
cylinder head sooner, so I have had to get it replaced. However the
cost savings outweigh that factor. I have driven my car 360,000 K and
with the savings already recovered the entire cost of the car,
including the replacements.

But you can't create hydrogen at
> 60% efficiency and then expect a gain by burning the hydrogen.  That
> don't compute.

Yes, I too was uneasy about this. The way I figure it out, if your
battery is fully charged then when your car is on the move it is not
charging any more. The alternator thus is on little load, just enough
to keep the battery fully charged. When the battery is passing a
current through the water to get hydrogen it is discharging extra
charge than normal, and the point is, can the alternator give it the
extra charge to keep it fully charged. Definitely, it will have to
work harder! If the story is really true, then I suppose the penalty
lies in the performance - the car may not accelerate that fast. Or
the battery could be flat after some distance - but in the TV show
this was not mentioned.

Regards,

Arindam Banerjee.


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